advice on keeping or firing someone . . .

[Tock]

Hello,

I run a small beauty salon, and I have two people helping me attend to
customers. Both of my people are working as independant contractors, not
employees.

One fellow is an asset to my business, the other could be if she would only
learn when to hold her tongue.
Some customers have complained that she talks their ear off. She often
jumps into conversations that the other fellow and I have with our customers
and changes the topic of conversation to herself. Sometimes she tells my
customers personal things about myself that I'd just as soon not have
brought up. She often "stomps on" other folk's conversations, again
changing the focus to herself. It's really quite annoying, and I'm pretty
sure I've lost customers because of her behaviour.
However, she also has long-term customers who enjoy talking with her,
people who are somewhat aggressive with their own conversation, and they
wouldn't think of going to anyone else for a haircut. She's a bit on the
slow side when performing her services, but the work she does is quite good
(for the most part).

I have spoken with her several times about this, and each time I do, she
becomes confrontational and upset. She storms out of the shop, only to come
back the next day with apologies and promises to do better.

Her employment contract comes up for renewal in 2 weeks. I've been
thinking about what to do, and I'd like y'all's opinion on the options I've
come up with:

1) Talk with her again about her overtalking.
2) Not renew her contract.
3) Renew her contract, but raise the booth lease fee to make up for the
business her tongue loses the shop, in the hope that the extra expense
persuades her to mind her own business and not annoy the customers.

I don't think option #1 will do much good, and for that matter, I'm not sure
that option #3 will either, because I don't think she really thinks she has
a problem. But then again, option #2 will leave me in a bit of a bind on
busy days if she wasn't around to attend to customers.

So . . . what do y'all think of this situation? Have any suggestions?

Thanks,

-Tock

[John A. Weeks III]

Post by Tock
Her employment contract comes up for renewal in 2 weeks. I've been
thinking about what to do, and I'd like y'all's opinion on the options I've

I'd consider offering her the renewal, but only a 30 day
renewal. Then give her a formal list of items that need
to change in order for a longer contract. Let her know
that all the problems do not need to be solved in 30 days,
but rather, you need to see some improvement and need to
see a plan on how to accomplish the rest. Perhaps she could
benefit from one of the Dale Carnigie courses or a course
on using time effectively.

-john-

[Tock]

Post by John A. Weeks III

Post by Tock
Her employment contract comes up for renewal in 2 weeks. I've been
thinking about what to do, and I'd like y'all's opinion on the options I've

I'd consider offering her the renewal, but only a 30 day
renewal. Then give her a formal list of items that need
to change in order for a longer contract. Let her know
that all the problems do not need to be solved in 30 days,
but rather, you need to see some improvement and need to
see a plan on how to accomplish the rest. Perhaps she could
benefit from one of the Dale Carnigie courses or a course
on using time effectively.

Thanks for the suggestions . . . I threw 'em in with the mix of things I was
contemplating, and found somewhat of a solution . . .

It seems this lady doesn't see a problem, thinks that she has a 5th
Amendment Right to say anything she wants to anytime she wants to say it as
long as she is renting my booth, and that what other people have to say
doesn't matter. I found out the place she worked in previously had moved
her workstation in an area all by itself, so she couldn't annoy anyone but
her own customers. Hmm.
I explained to her that she just might have 5th Amendment rights while
she had a contract, but that I had the right not to renew her contract when
it expired, and if she didn't settle down, then she was going to find
herself looking for another place to cut hair. Then she got upset, and
it struck me that she was actually going to have a very difficult time
keeping her mouth shut, probably for some unknown psychologic problem.
Hmmm.

Anyway, I gave her a one-month contract, made a list of things that need to
improve if she wants me to give her another one after that. Evidently what
I said made an impression, because today she's been awful courteous. I
hope she keeps it up . . .

Thanks again for the helpful words,

-Tock

[w***@aol.com]

Post by Tock
I explained to her that she just might have 5th Amendment rights while
she had a contract, but that I had the right not to renew her contract when
it expired, and if she didn't settle down, then she was going to find
herself looking for another place to cut hair. Then she got upset, and
it struck me that she was actually going to have a very difficult time
keeping her mouth shut, probably for some unknown psychologic problem.
Hmmm.

A thought crossed my mind since you mentioned "psychological
problem." It might have been habitual or how she was brought up.

The ideal interaction in a group conversation is to have one make a
point within a reasonable amount of time, and others to wait until that
person has finished. Some families coordinate that very well, while
other families that I have seen do it poorly.

You often see that behavior even on TV shows where one person says that
they have three points to make and before they have a chance to finish
the second point still within a reasonable amount of time, someone cuts
in and hijacks the conversation. The TV shows are supposed to be
highly professional, in terms of interaction coordination, but it seems
at times some get emotionally charged up and other times it is simply
the time constraint.

To get back to the main issue, some of her customers might have come
from a similar background, and enjoy a similar style of conversation.
Without prejudice, a lot of time, some people don't have a clue that
their habits are a nuisance to others, because in general, that's just
how things are in their communities.

Just to say that it may not necessarily be a psychological issue.

My two cents ...

[m***@jach.hawaii.edu]

Post by w***@aol.com

Post by Tock
I explained to her that she just might have 5th Amendment rights while
she had a contract, but that I had the right not to renew her contract when
it expired, and if she didn't settle down, then she was going to find
herself looking for another place to cut hair. Then she got upset, and
it struck me that she was actually going to have a very difficult time
keeping her mouth shut, probably for some unknown psychologic problem.
Hmmm.

A thought crossed my mind since you mentioned "psychological
problem." It might have been habitual or how she was brought up.

Coming from a family where everybody talks to themselves
aloud I find it is a habit that's very hard to break ...
I don't think it's a psychological problem.

Maren
Palms, Etc.: Tropical Plant Seeds - Hand-made Jewelry - Plants &
Lilikoi
http://www.jach.hawaii.edu/~maren/palms_etc/

[Tock]

Post by w***@aol.com
To get back to the main issue, some of her customers might have come
from a similar background, and enjoy a similar style of conversation.
Without prejudice, a lot of time, some people don't have a clue that
their habits are a nuisance to others, because in general, that's just
how things are in their communities.
Just to say that it may not necessarily be a psychological issue.
My two cents ...

It seems that some of her customers don't mind her style of conversation at
all (it seems to be the ones who are quite aggressive in their own
conversation), but others find it overbearing.
It's becoming a problem for me because this lady will jump right in and
dominate conversations happening across the room. She doesn't seem to have
any idea of what she's doing is disruptive to other haircutters, and when I
brought up the subject last time, she interrupted me and declared that I was
interfering with her right to free speech. Oy vey. She's very difficult
to discuss things with; before I'm even halfway making my point, she sees
what direction I'm going, and becomes very defensive, and then very hostile.
And, it's not only with me -- she is regularly late for her first
appointment of the day, never apologizes to her customers, and should they
bring up the topic of her chronic tardiness, she becomes hostile with them.
She's lost some of her customers over tardiness, other customers tell me
that they've brought the subject up and learned that not to make that
mistake again. I have no idea why they don't patronize someone else, but
there you have it . . .

I gave her a month to get her act together, and it isn't happening. Still
has a 100% tardy record, still hijacks other folk's conversations, still
makes some of her customers cower, and she resists complying with many of
the state sanitation requirements. I'm afraid I'm going to have to
replace her as soon as I can find someone . . . ugh . . . I'd talk to her
about all this (and there's a few other issues, too), but it's impossible to
discuss this stuff without her getting angry and unreasonable.

Oh well . . .

Thanks,

-Tock

[Wayne Sallee]

Get rid of her.

You would probably be better off getting rid of her even
before you have a replacement. Waiting for a replacement
could cause more harm than good.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets

Post by Tock

Post by w***@aol.com
To get back to the main issue, some of her customers might have come
from a similar background, and enjoy a similar style of conversation.
Without prejudice, a lot of time, some people don't have a clue that
their habits are a nuisance to others, because in general, that's just
how things are in their communities.
Just to say that it may not necessarily be a psychological issue.
My two cents ...

It seems that some of her customers don't mind her style of conversation at
all (it seems to be the ones who are quite aggressive in their own
conversation), but others find it overbearing.
It's becoming a problem for me because this lady will jump right in and
dominate conversations happening across the room. She doesn't seem to have
any idea of what she's doing is disruptive to other haircutters, and when I
brought up the subject last time, she interrupted me and declared that I was
interfering with her right to free speech. Oy vey. She's very difficult
to discuss things with; before I'm even halfway making my point, she sees
what direction I'm going, and becomes very defensive, and then very hostile.
And, it's not only with me -- she is regularly late for her first
appointment of the day, never apologizes to her customers, and should they
bring up the topic of her chronic tardiness, she becomes hostile with them.
She's lost some of her customers over tardiness, other customers tell me
that they've brought the subject up and learned that not to make that
mistake again. I have no idea why they don't patronize someone else, but
there you have it . . .
I gave her a month to get her act together, and it isn't happening. Still
has a 100% tardy record, still hijacks other folk's conversations, still
makes some of her customers cower, and she resists complying with many of
the state sanitation requirements. I'm afraid I'm going to have to
replace her as soon as I can find someone . . . ugh . . . I'd talk to her
about all this (and there's a few other issues, too), but it's impossible to
discuss this stuff without her getting angry and unreasonable.
Oh well . . .
Thanks,
-Tock

[Tock]

Post by Wayne Sallee
Get rid of her.
You would probably be better off getting rid of her even
before you have a replacement. Waiting for a replacement
could cause more harm than good.

Well, it looks like that decision has been made . . . I asked her to fix 2
violations of the state sanitation rules, and she somehow took things
personally. She gave her notice (the terms of the the independant
contractor contract we signed allows either one of us to terminate things
with 30 days notice), wants to pick up her things tomorrow and leave for
good. She also threatened to sue me for harassment (because I told her to
put her towels away and to clean up her sanitizer jar) if I charge her for
the last four weeks of booth rent. The deal with the towels is, she put
some of her towels on an adjacent booth (not even her own), and the state
rules state that all unused towels must be covered, else the shop owner can
get fined. She thinks that's BS, but it's in the state rules. The thing
with the sanitizer jar is, that it was about 3/4 full with old liquid and
the bottom inch or so was hair sediment. In short, it was dirty and
unsanitary, and she was using combs from that jar on her customer. Of
course, such things violate state law, and it ain't fair to the customer to
let her use dirty combs on 'em. When she stated that my mentioning that
constituted harassment, I said, "Well, answer me this: was the sanitizer jar
dirty?" and she just got angrier and threatened to sue me for harassment.

Oh well . . . she's gone . . .

-Tock

[Wayne Sallee]

Don't give her any slack just because she has threatened
to sue you. She does not deserve any extra considerations.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets

Post by Tock

Post by Wayne Sallee
Get rid of her.
You would probably be better off getting rid of her even
before you have a replacement. Waiting for a replacement
could cause more harm than good.

Well, it looks like that decision has been made . . . I asked her to fix 2
violations of the state sanitation rules, and she somehow took things
personally. She gave her notice (the terms of the the independant
contractor contract we signed allows either one of us to terminate things
with 30 days notice), wants to pick up her things tomorrow and leave for
good. She also threatened to sue me for harassment (because I told her to
put her towels away and to clean up her sanitizer jar) if I charge her for
the last four weeks of booth rent. The deal with the towels is, she put
some of her towels on an adjacent booth (not even her own), and the state
rules state that all unused towels must be covered, else the shop owner can
get fined. She thinks that's BS, but it's in the state rules. The thing
with the sanitizer jar is, that it was about 3/4 full with old liquid and
the bottom inch or so was hair sediment. In short, it was dirty and
unsanitary, and she was using combs from that jar on her customer. Of
course, such things violate state law, and it ain't fair to the customer to
let her use dirty combs on 'em. When she stated that my mentioning that
constituted harassment, I said, "Well, answer me this: was the sanitizer jar
dirty?" and she just got angrier and threatened to sue me for harassment.
Oh well . . . she's gone . . .
-Tock

[Wayne Sallee]

Don't renew her contract.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets

Post by Tock
Hello,
I run a small beauty salon, and I have two people helping me attend to
customers. Both of my people are working as independant contractors, not
employees.
One fellow is an asset to my business, the other could be if she would only
learn when to hold her tongue.
Some customers have complained that she talks their ear off. She often
jumps into conversations that the other fellow and I have with our customers
and changes the topic of conversation to herself. Sometimes she tells my
customers personal things about myself that I'd just as soon not have
brought up. She often "stomps on" other folk's conversations, again
changing the focus to herself. It's really quite annoying, and I'm pretty
sure I've lost customers because of her behaviour.
However, she also has long-term customers who enjoy talking with her,
people who are somewhat aggressive with their own conversation, and they
wouldn't think of going to anyone else for a haircut. She's a bit on the
slow side when performing her services, but the work she does is quite good
(for the most part).
I have spoken with her several times about this, and each time I do, she
becomes confrontational and upset. She storms out of the shop, only to come
back the next day with apologies and promises to do better.
Her employment contract comes up for renewal in 2 weeks. I've been
thinking about what to do, and I'd like y'all's opinion on the options I've
1) Talk with her again about her overtalking.
2) Not renew her contract.
3) Renew her contract, but raise the booth lease fee to make up for the
business her tongue loses the shop, in the hope that the extra expense
persuades her to mind her own business and not annoy the customers.
I don't think option #1 will do much good, and for that matter, I'm not sure
that option #3 will either, because I don't think she really thinks she has
a problem. But then again, option #2 will leave me in a bit of a bind on
busy days if she wasn't around to attend to customers.
So . . . what do y'all think of this situation? Have any suggestions?
Thanks,
-Tock