marketing incentive pay

[Robert Anderson]

Salespeople are normally paid a base + commision. The metric upon which they
are judged and paid is how much they sell.

Is a similar system used for marketing people? If so exactly how is it
structured? Obviously, it is a little trickier since they don't normally
sell directly...

[Scott Jensen]

[Mod Note: I am posting this on behalf of Scott Jenson as his ISP is having
some sort of difficulty with their news server. Therefore, the headers and the
formatting of this message may be a bit off. -- Mike]

Post by Robert Anderson
Salespeople are normally paid a base + commision. The metric
upon which they are judged and paid is how much they sell.

Do realize that for sales people "base plus commission" isn't like a salary
plus an performance bonus as non-sales people receive. The base is almost
always deducted from their sales commissions in one way or another. Some
companies are very up front about this ("We expect you to bring in
$X,XXX in
sales a month. After you bring in that, you get X% sales commission on all
other sales.") and others less so. If you don't produce enough to even
cover your base, you're canned. Your sales manager knows that amount and
tracks it like a bloodhound. This is one of the reason that experienced
sales people ask for straight commission. They know the reality and use
that to their advantage by getting a larger sales commission rate for going
straight commission than base-plus-commission people get.

Post by Robert Anderson
Is a similar system used for marketing people? If so exactly how
is it structured? Obviously, it is a little trickier since they don't
normally sell directly...

It depends on what part of marketing you're talking about. The five major
sub-sections of marketing are Sales, Advertising, Public Relations, Market
Research, and Strategy. There are other sub-sections, but these are the
big
five. Strategy is a sub-section few in marketing think is there since
it is
really the section that the others stem off of. Strategy is also usually
just one person and that's the head of the marketing department. It is
also
usually the only one that as a similar reward system as sales. Similar,
but
not identical. The reason is because it is in charge of sales. As for the
others...

If in house, ad people usually only get a salary ... and have a big ax
hovering over their necks. You produce or else! Sadly, that's usually how
it goes. A brilliant ad campaign will usually only get the ad man a good
pat on the back. The ax possibly even hidden behind the executioner's back
if the ad campaign is really good ... but it is always there. If part
of an
outside ad firm, commissions (if they're given) are how much the account
executive can squeeze out of a client for their ad budget. Note I made no
mention of performance there. As with the in-house ad people, outside ad
firms live with an ax hovering over their necks. Businesses would think it
stupid to give the outside ad firm a cut of the action. In my estimation,
that's stupid but that's how normal business operates.

Public relations is barely understood by business. Most view it as merely
an expense they have to endure to keep the prying press and politicians off
their backs. The vast majority of businesses do not conduct any public
relations because of they don't view PR as simply advertising in another
form. Besides, PR is very hard to track ... unlike advertising. PR
commonly needs an incubation time that VERY few businesses have the
patience
for. The ironic thing is that PR gets businesses FAR more bang for their
buck than advertising. When you're hired for PR, it is just a salary.
Rarely anything more. Like advertising, you have an ax over your neck.
Unlike advertising, your employment is more secure since businesses don't
know when to chop since they barely understand how to measure performance.
;-)

As for market research, the best way to think of this is to view it as
nothing more than accounting. I've never heard of anyone in market
research
..... not even the head ... get a performance bonus (besides the stupid
socialistic company-wide performance bonuses). Even though Strategy is
very
dependent on market research and everything else is dependent on Strategy.

Now if you want to know how to give incentives to each of the sub-sections
to better results from each, that's possible ... but not what you asked.

Scott Jensen

[Robert Anderson]

Post by Scott Jensen
Now if you want to know how to give incentives to each of the sub-sections
to better results from each, that's possible ... but not what you asked.

Yes, that is what I am looking for. Specifically, how would you compensate a
marketing coordinator?

Thanks.

[Scott T. Jensen]

Post by Robert Anderson

Post by Scott Jensen
Now if you want to know how to give incentives to each of the
sub-sections to better results from each, that's possible ... but
not what you asked.

Yes, that is what I am looking for. Specifically, how would you
compensate a marketing coordinator?

Time to tick off marketing coordinators. *laugh*

A marketing coordinator is a glorified title for a secretary in a marketing
department. If you want to give them an incentive, I'd recommend just
giving them the same one as their boss ... but proportional to their salary
difference. Their boss get a bonus, they get a proportional bonus. Their
boss gets a raise, they get the same percentage raise. You need to get them
to realize that they're there to improve the efficiency of their boss. By
the way, this is the same incentive program I recommend all secretaries are
given.

Scott Jensen

[Robert Anderson]

Post by Scott T. Jensen

Post by Robert Anderson

Post by Scott Jensen
Now if you want to know how to give incentives to each of the
sub-sections to better results from each, that's possible ... but
not what you asked.

Yes, that is what I am looking for. Specifically, how would you
compensate a marketing coordinator?

Time to tick off marketing coordinators. *laugh*
A marketing coordinator is a glorified title for a secretary in a marketing
department. If you want to give them an incentive, I'd recommend just
giving them the same one as their boss ... but proportional to their salary
difference. Their boss get a bonus, they get a proportional bonus. Their
boss gets a raise, they get the same percentage raise. You need to get them
to realize that they're there to improve the efficiency of their boss. By
the way, this is the same incentive program I recommend all secretaries are
given.

Marketing coordinator at my company means marketing manager.

[Robert Anderson]

Post by Scott T. Jensen

Post by Robert Anderson

Post by Scott Jensen
Now if you want to know how to give incentives to each of the
sub-sections to better results from each, that's possible ... but
not what you asked.

Yes, that is what I am looking for. Specifically, how would you
compensate a marketing coordinator?

Time to tick off marketing coordinators. *laugh*
A marketing coordinator is a glorified title for a secretary in a marketing
department. If you want to give them an incentive, I'd recommend just
giving them the same one as their boss ... but proportional to their salary
difference. Their boss get a bonus, they get a proportional bonus. Their
boss gets a raise, they get the same percentage raise. You need to get them
to realize that they're there to improve the efficiency of their boss. By
the way, this is the same incentive program I recommend all secretaries are
given.

Maybe you could help me determine a better title. The responsibilities:

1. project managed and wrote content for a new website.

2. manages resources and people to get marketing related projects done. For
example, a project might need a graphic designer, two programmers, and an
HTML coder. The next project might just need a graphic designer. Marketing
projects range from email marketing, to referral programs, to direct mail.

3. Does PR such as articles and press releases.

4. coordinates with sales department on a regular basis.

Thanks.

[Scott T. Jensen]

Post by Robert Anderson

Post by Scott T. Jensen

Post by Robert Anderson

Post by Scott Jensen
Now if you want to know how to give incentives to each of
the sub-sections to better results from each, that's possible
... but not what you asked.

Yes, that is what I am looking for. Specifically, how would
you compensate a marketing coordinator?

Time to tick off marketing coordinators. *laugh*
A marketing coordinator is a glorified title for a secretary in a
marketing department. If you want to give them an incentive,
I'd recommend just giving them the same one as their boss ...
but proportional to their salary difference. Their boss get a
bonus, they get a proportional bonus. Their boss gets a raise,
they get the same percentage raise. You need to get them to
realize that they're there to improve the efficiency of their boss.
By the way, this is the same incentive program I recommend
all secretaries are given.

Maybe you could help me determine a better title. The
1. project managed and wrote content for a new website.
2. manages resources and people to get marketing related projects
done. For example, a project might need a graphic designer, two
programmers, and an HTML coder. The next project might just
need a graphic designer. Marketing projects range from email
marketing, to referral programs, to direct mail.
3. Does PR such as articles and press releases.
4. coordinates with sales department on a regular basis.

Basic one would be simply marketing manager ... as you said in the other
reply to my post above. If you want a bit more impressive title, you can
call them Director of Marketing ... though this usually means you actually
have a department with people in it and usually that doesn't mean just a
secretary. But, heck, you can call them God of Marketing if you like. It's
really up to you. A VP of Marketing usually implies you have directors,
managers, and leads (which is another word for supervisor these days)
underneath you and people underneath them.

Scott Jensen

[George King]

Post by Robert Anderson

Post by Scott T. Jensen

Post by Robert Anderson

Post by Scott Jensen
Now if you want to know how to give incentives to
each of the sub-sections to better results from
each, that's possible ... but not what you asked.

Yes, that is what I am looking for. Specifically,
how would you compensate a marketing coordinator?

Time to tick off marketing coordinators. *laugh*
A marketing coordinator is a glorified title for a
secretary in a marketing department. If you want
to give them an incentive, I'd recommend just giving
them the same one as their boss ... but proportional
to their salary difference. Their boss get a bonus,
they get a proportional bonus. Their boss gets a
raise, they get the same percentage raise. You need
to get them to realize that they're there to improve
the efficiency of their boss. By the way, this is
the same incentive program I recommend all secretaries
are given.

Maybe you could help me determine a better title. The
1. project managed and wrote content for a new website.
2. manages resources and people to get marketing related
projects done. For example, a project might need a
graphic designer, two programmers, and an HTML coder. The
next project might just need a graphic designer. Marketing
projects range from email marketing, to referral programs,
to direct mail.
3. Does PR such as articles and press releases.
4. coordinates with sales department on a regular basis.

Robert,

Most of what you describe sound like marketing communications in my
experience. MarCom (at least in technology companies)reports to the VP of
Marketing (or CMO) and is typically responsible for the production process
(and often a large part of the content) for outward-facing communications
for the organization. The MarCom group, headed by a MarCom manager or
director, creates/collaborates in the creation/outsources the creation of
product collateral, corporate brochures & backgrounders, corporate
internet/intranet/extranet content & operation, direct mail, advertising,
and often PR (which, as Scott says, is usually under-rated and
under-utilized). In very large organizations, the corporate brochure,
stockholder/partner communications, and related materials (annual report,
etc.) may belong to a communications department reporting to the
President/CEO.

Whatever this person is doing, don't let them be called a marketing
coordinator. Scott is right - traffic manager at best, underpaid and
over-worked gofer at worst, and secretary in the middle. That title won't
do much for a resume.

George King
G.E. King Marketing

[George King]

Post by Robert Anderson
Salespeople are normally paid a base + commision. The metric
upon which they are judged and paid is how much they sell.
Is a similar system used for marketing people? If so exactly
how is it structured? Obviously, it is a little trickier
since they don't normally sell directly...

As Scott points out, many parts of the marketing team are usually salary
only (though the salary can be quite high). On the other hand, many
companies put a bonus structure into the compensation of the people with P&L
responsibility for products/services - the product managers. As the people
responsible for shaping the future of products/services within an
organization, product managers, and sometimes product marketing managers,
have significant bonuses in their compensation plan IF the product hits its
planned revenue goals. This is fairly common in the software industry, for
example. IMHO, any good company finds a way to bonus or profit-share for
all employees, so that success is shared among all the worker bees.

George King
G.E. King Marketing

[Scott T. Jensen]

Post by George King

Post by Robert Anderson
Salespeople are normally paid a base + commision. The metric
upon which they are judged and paid is how much they sell.
Is a similar system used for marketing people? If so exactly
how is it structured? Obviously, it is a little trickier
since they don't normally sell directly...

As Scott points out, many parts of the marketing team are usually
salary only (though the salary can be quite high). On the other
hand, many companies put a bonus structure into the compensation
of the people with P&L responsibility for products/services - the
product managers. As the people responsible for shaping the future
of products/services within an organization, product managers, and
sometimes product marketing managers, have significant bonuses in
their compensation plan IF the product hits its planned revenue goals.

I would put product managers in the Strategy sub-section of marketing as
outlined in my first reply. While they're not head of the overall marketing
team, they're given strategy responsibility for the product they're put in
charge of.

Post by George King
IMHO, any good company finds a way to bonus or profit-share for
all employees, so that success is shared among all the worker bees.

I'd agree with this for the marketing team. I wouldn't for probably the
rest of the company. Most employees really don't have a direct impact on
how profitable the company is as marketing does. I'd instead give them
incentives for how productive they are. You accomplish this by this time
(or under budget ... or while tap dancing and singing "Oklahoma") and you
get this bonus. Tying their bonus to how profitable the company is doesn't
make the average employee feel in control of their fate. Marketing
personnel, yes. Average employee, no.

Scott Jensen

[Wayne Lundberg]

Post by Robert Anderson
Salespeople are normally paid a base + commision. The metric upon which they
are judged and paid is how much they sell.
Is a similar system used for marketing people? If so exactly how is it
structured? Obviously, it is a little trickier since they don't normally
sell directly...

If I were to farm out my marketing responsibilities to an agency, they would
be paid a commission from the media advertising they buy for me. Say I
budget $100,000.00 a year for strategy, PR, Ads, events... they would get
about $15,000 from the TV, Radio, other media they buy for me. This is not a
kickback, it's the way it has been done since the first poster went up on a
wall in Babylonia thousands of years ago.

Wayne

[Scott T. Jensen]

Post by Robert Anderson
Salespeople are normally paid a base + commision. The metric
upon which they are judged and paid is how much they sell.

Do realize that for sales people "base plus commission" isn't like a salary
plus an performance bonus as non-sales people receive. The base is almost
always deducted from their sales commissions in one way or another. Some
companies are very up front about this ("We expect you to bring in $X,XXX in
sales a month. After you bring in that, you get X% sales commission on all
other sales.") and others less so. If you don't produce enough to even
cover your base, you're canned. Your sales manager knows that amount and
tracks it like a bloodhound. This is one of the reason that experienced
sales people ask for straight commission. They know the reality and use
that to their advantage by getting a larger sales commission rate for going
straight commission than base-plus-commission people get.

Post by Robert Anderson
Is a similar system used for marketing people? If so exactly how
is it structured? Obviously, it is a little trickier since they don't
normally sell directly...

It depends on what part of marketing you're talking about. The five major
sub-sections of marketing are Sales, Advertising, Public Relations, Market
Research, and Strategy. There are other sub-sections, but these are the big
five. Strategy is a sub-section few in marketing think is there since it is
really the section that the others stem off of. Strategy is also usually
just one person and that's the head of the marketing department. It is also
usually the only one that as a similar reward system as sales. Similar, but
not identical. The reason is because it is in charge of sales. As for the
others...

If in house, ad people usually only get a salary ... and have a big ax
hovering over their necks. You produce or else! Sadly, that's usually how
it goes. A brilliant ad campaign will usually only get the ad man a good
pat on the back. The ax possibly even hidden behind the executioner's back
if the ad campaign is really good ... but it is always there. If part of an
outside ad firm, commissions (if they're given) are how much the account
executive can squeeze out of a client for their ad budget. Note I made no
mention of performance there. As with the in-house ad people, outside ad
firms live with an ax hovering over their necks. Businesses would think it
stupid to give the outside ad firm a cut of the action. In my estimation,
that's stupid but that's how normal business operates.

Public relations is barely understood by business. Most view it as merely
an expense they have to endure to keep the prying press and politicians off
their backs. The vast majority of businesses do not conduct any public
relations because of they don't view PR as simply advertising in another
form. Besides, PR is very hard to track ... unlike advertising. PR
commonly needs an incubation time that VERY few businesses have the patience
for. The ironic thing is that PR gets businesses FAR more bang for their
buck than advertising. When you're hired for PR, it is just a salary.
Rarely anything more. Like advertising, you have an ax over your neck.
Unlike advertising, your employment is more secure since businesses don't
know when to chop since they barely understand how to measure performance.
;-)

As for market research, the best way to think of this is to view it as
nothing more than accounting. I've never heard of anyone in market research
.... not even the head ... get a performance bonus (besides the stupid
socialistic company-wide performance bonuses). Even though Strategy is very
dependent on market research and everything else is dependent on Strategy.

Now if you want to know how to give incentives to each of the sub-sections
to better results from each, that's possible ... but not what you asked.

Scott Jensen

[Wayne Lundberg]

Post by Robert Anderson
Salespeople are normally paid a base + commision. The metric upon which they
are judged and paid is how much they sell.
Is a similar system used for marketing people? If so exactly how is it
structured? Obviously, it is a little trickier since they don't normally
sell directly...

If I were to farm out my marketing responsibilities to an agency, they would
be paid a commission from the media advertising they buy for me. Say I
budget $100,000.00 a year for strategy, PR, Ads, events... they would get
about $15,000 from the TV, Radio, other media they buy for me. This is not a
kickback, it's the way it has been done since the first poster went up on a
wall in Babylonia thousands of years ago.

Wayne